Western Mining Alliance :?:

[russau]

small scale miners are such a small group/vote and dont have the millions of $$$$ to donate(enviromental groups) to these socalled "representatives" area of representation, so they cant get up infont of TV camaras and say they did this for us at NO tax increase. what have we got to donate to their cause of NON- REPRESENTATION for us????

[Reno badboy]

Ain't that the truth!!!!!!!

[DJR]

small scale miners are such a small group/vote and dont have the millions of $$$$ to donate(enviromental groups) to these socalled "representatives" area of representation, so they cant get up infont of TV camaras and say they did this for us at NO tax increase. what have we got to donate to their cause of NON- REPRESENTATION for us????

You got a point but unless miners small and large band together it is a lost cause.
Lets face it elected officials twist the truth to what ever they need it to be and the average citizens has no recourse.

[russau]

DJR i agree but how do we/you/everyone get these people to get involved in the rights of small scale miners? or for that matter,even educating/voting for our elected socalled "representative"? most Americans (that even bother to vote) dont do any research into these people running for office or for the ones that are in office. you cant beleive what you hear from them! you must check their track record on voting and what theyve ACCUALLY DONE VRS> what they say they were going to do when running for reelection. ussually they tell you one thing and tell someother group something completly different to suit the attention of that particular group.theyll say anything to get your vote and then once in office, theyre party TELLS/DIRECTS them on what the party wants VRS. what you the tax paying American wants. so if you can sort this out and solve it, we got the game won! BUT.................

[DJR]

That is a good question. I wish I knew how to get it started, I guess it would have to be in the form of a national association, Non-profit were the due's go toward fighting for our rights. There are a lot of small operations around but I think we need a national one. Maybe some of the local one's are willing to band together, if that is feasible, the biggest problem I see ( and this is not meant as an accusation) is that people care only about their local rights and are trying to fight the states individually. But this is not working. Attitudes have to change and you have to care about everybody's rights be that in CA or Maine. And it must be fought on the federal level the states are regulating us out of our rights due to us by federal law. I hope we can get something going, I know there are people out there trying very hard and I am not trying to insult them but lets face it so far the efforts have been ineffective.

[russau]

well for those that do try, my hats off to them! but the problem lies in the fact that most small scale miners arent supporting those that do try to fight for their rights. theres that west/east stumbeling block.

[Bonaro]

<<<people care only about their local rights and are trying to fight the states individually.>>>

DJR, you are right but it is far worse than that. Many miners only care about their individual rights. You can put 10 small scale miners in the middle of a field and you will have 10 different opinions about what the weather is like. Not only that but if someone does stand up and try to blaze a path through the bureaucracy buy uniting the individuals, they are torn apart by each individual when each of their personal wants and desires are not fulfilled. I have seen this happen over and over. We have a lot of folks in this industry who are trying to fight for the overall rights of the small miner and there is a constant opposition from individuals who do not agree with the way it is happening. Not only do they not support that person but they actively try to undo him in his efforts.

I agree that we need a national organization...like the NRA. If that were to get created they would be peppered with demands like "I want to know if you will get dredging opened on X creek because that is where my claim is" It doesn't work that way but many small miners just cant see it. Organizations like this require a lot of money to operate. Than means donations...bingo, you have more opposition

Non profit National organizations have tried to start in the past. The small miners tend to feel that mining is a "right" not a privilege and therefore should be granted to them and it should be free.

It truly is like herding cats

[russau]

Dan isnt that what PLP is doing? a lot of people think that PLP is a California/westcoast thing, but it isnt! other states have used PLP to fight for their rights. right now, the west coast states are the biggest issue. if they fall, or fall any more than they have,we all will feel the pinch of our loss of rights.the midwest/eastern states have a solid place in PLP fighting for their rights and when PLP is successfull in the western litigations fighting for all of our rights, they will pursue the other states problems full force. PLP can only be successfull if everyone gets behind then and supports their efforts. they cant do it all by themselves. i really wish PLP could gain the material/info from the Western Mining Council.theres many years of information there to backup the fight to protect our rights...P.S. Dan, thanks for your continued support of PLP!

[digman]

BB,
I support your efforts. Had a long thread about a year ago on another forum about affecting legislation. Many seemed curious but a few vocal veterans tried hard to poo poo the idea.
The idea that miners are independent is accurate but none more so, than bikers were in the 80s.
What we found was, a national organization is just to far flung to be effective or to coordinate. By 1979, we had a very small active STATE biker rights organization running on a shoe string. Today we have over 26,000 members.
Then, we couldn't get an appointment to see a legislator. Now, they call us if ANY motorcycle related bills pop up. Heck, we have a seat on the Governor's Council on Drunk and Impaired Driving. (and a Governor who really rides and is a member. You may have heard of Mitch Daniels.)
The hardest thing to beat in the early days was the perception that, "politics is bought and paid for." and "We can't make a difference.) Both are not true.
Money may help buy votes (through media campaigns) BUT VOTES are what ploiticians want/need. We found that by getting all bikers registered to vote and developing a good communication line, we could act as a voice for the members and the politicians had to listen. We had one State Representative who wanted to pass a bill which would force bikes to ride only three in a group. She had won election by 127 votes. We showed her that we had over 250 registered voters in her district and she immediately dropped the bill. No money changed hands. That's 250 people who made a difference.
Bottom line, A grassroots organization affects political change by the power of VOTES not donating millions to a political fund. It does take some money to operate. And you have to be sure that the leaders put personal interest aside. As you see from other posts about previous efforts, often the leaders get to thinking what's in it for me and the members lose trust. That has happened in many other State bikers rights organizations over the years. One self serving A hole can put a bad taste in everybodys mouth forever.
I recommend, Start in one state. California would be the key. I'd send membership dues to that just to prevent this green disease from spreading to Indiana.
Divide the State into regions and get good people to represent each region. Keep those regions aware of all efforts on the state level, while each region has fund raisers to support the State effort. It takes sacrifice and hard work (without pay) to build a membership base but it CAN be done.
I know for a FACT that it can work. People who say they have no way to change legislation because of the "big money" lobbyists should know that The Insurance Institute and American Medical Association were our biggest foes. (Nobody has a bigger war chest than insurance companies.) We kicked their butts and are still doing it today.
To sum it up:
Start small, one State. Get honest key people with the same vision scattered over the State. Attend club meetings, outings, mining shops and any other opportunity to sign up members using a clear vision of attainable goals. Link up communications so that everybody knows what is going on. Find ways to gather funds from the non mining community, like gold raffles or pay for play panning booths at fairs. (Early bikers in Nevada had "bowlingpin shoots in the desert. Pay for a clip and fire a real Thompson .45. That drew a lot of the public who spent tons o' bucks.) Seek support from miners in other States using the logic, "It's better to fight them in Cal. than in YOUR State." Then, USE the power that George,Tom, Ben and the boys crafted into the constitution. Votes.
I've been there done it. Recruiting, organizing, fund raising, and BOUGHT hundreds of Tshirts to support the cause over the last 30 years.
I would be glad to share some tried and true lessons from that experience if you are interested. Maybe we could get together somewhere in the middle (of the country) this winter and kick it around face to face.
Russ? St. Louis is pretty centrally located. Think you could put a hand full of leaders together? East Meets West? I'd love to spread the American idea of one person one vote and how to make it happen.
Good luck to you guys.
Mike "Digger" Phelps aka Digman

[russau]

im not sure. im not a very good dentist!!
but im willing to try! something needs tobe done to stop this spread of cancer once and forall!